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#: 17542 S13/The GEOS Connection
02-Jan-89 09:24:16
Sb: #Copy Protection
Fm: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
To: all GEOS users
Hi all:
Well, well, well. Get a load of this. I was in a store recently and saw someone
purchase GeoPublish for the Apple. Hang on to your socks.
Not only is the program supplied on 5.25" disk AND 3.5" disk, IT IS
NOT COPY-PROTECTED!!!!!!!!!!!
How do you like them apples <sorry>!!!! Hmmm.... I wonder....
Maybe Commodore got BSW to copy-protect GEOS? They are "official" remember.
Since GEOS isn't official with Apple maybe BSW is trying to be nice to Apple
users to get better market penetration. (They could hardly have better
penetration in the C= market.) It's tough to figure. BSW had a guaranteed
high-volume customer in CBM. Just about everybody has a legit copy of GEOS (if
they want GEOS) and a similar number have had problems because of the copy
protection. I think a have a topic for my next editorial.
This should be an interesting thread. Comments, anyone?
Malcolm
#: 17543 S13/The GEOS Connection
02-Jan-89 10:03:00
Sb: #17542-Copy Protection
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
Hmmmm, I wonder whether this is a new policy, or if it's been that way with
Apple GEOS since the start. It's my understanding that Apple GEOS has had less
than earth-shattering sales.
#: 17553 S13/The GEOS Connection
02-Jan-89 15:13:30
Sb: #17542-Copy Protection
Fm: Marte Brengle 76703,4242
To: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
The price for Apple GEOS is also significantly higher, and as far as I can
tell, it doesn't do anything more (or less) than the C= version does, except
that the Apple GEOS does NOT have a "convert" program as yet, so files can't be
uploaded or downloaded, NOR can they be "ported to Commodores" like Brian
Dougherty promised would be possible (part of his justification for taking time
off from fixing all the Commodore bugs to produce the Apple version).
I don't think Commodore got BSW to copy protect the program. I think BSW did
that all on their own, and then had to stick with it so as not to appear to be
"backing down" on their previous wrong-headed stance with the Commodore users.
Apple GEOS, being a new product, they probably wised up and left the copy
protection off since they knew full well it was a total crock.
Honestly, I don't know why people think they will die an immediate and horribly
gruesome death if they say "I made a mistake" or "I was wrong about that."
Heck, I have had to do it a fair number of times, and I ain't dead yet. The
folks at BSW should wise up.
--M--
#: 17560 S13/The GEOS Connection
02-Jan-89 21:01:30
Sb: #17553-#Copy Protection
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Marte Brengle 76703,4242 (X)
I find this info interesting. It seems to me part of the problem maybe,that the
commodore market is so large they simply feel they can get away with anything
they chose. A current example is restricting customer service to Q-Link.I do
not believe the Apple market will take the consumer abuse the Commodore market
will.I believe a call for a letter writing campaign,to BSW, is warranted.Actual
letters arriving at their offices will be harder to ignore than online
complaints, providing the volume is large enough.
#: 17562 S13/The GEOS Connection
02-Jan-89 21:33:15
Sb: #17560-#Copy Protection
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143 (X)
Steve,
That's not a bad idea. Perhaps given a volume of intelligent, well-reasoned
letters explaining why cutting off telephone technical support is a bad idea,
they could be persuaded to change. Worth a try, in any case. I know you've
mentioned you have the address, but for the benefit of others reading this
thread, it is:
Berkeley Softworks
2150 Shattuck Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94704
#: 17565 S13/The GEOS Connection
02-Jan-89 23:52:32
Sb: #17562-Copy Protection
Fm: Marte Brengle 76703,4242
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
I would suggest addressing the letters to someone in authority. I don't,
unfortunately, have the names of anyone appropriate, and I doubt that Brian
Dougherty looks at his own mail.
--M--
#: 17586 S13/The GEOS Connection
03-Jan-89 18:39:09
Sb: #17562-#Copy Protection
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
ED, I agree with Marte that Brain Dougherty probably does not look at his own
mail.To get him or whoever to take notice it will take more than a few letters.
What upsets me the most is the "apparent" attempt to force one to belong to
Q-Link for customer service.I resent what appears to be going on.Maybe with the
help of others on this network a effective plan of action can be come up with.
#: 17588 S13/The GEOS Connection
03-Jan-89 20:17:11
Sb: #17586-#Copy Protection
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143 (X)
Steve,
I don't know if he reads his own mail or not. I'd hope that he would at
least be kept up-to-date with an outline of what's coming in, though. In
interviews I've read, BSW reps have always taken the position that GEOS users
were getting the kind of customer support they were paying for; that a
low-priced system didn't generate the revenue to finance a big support group.
In the official announcement, which is reprinted in the most recent geoWorld
(#17), they say, in part, "We believe this change allows us to best serve the
greatest number of people."
I don't know all the reasons they did it, and I don't know what it would
take to get them to change it. I think it's worthwhile, though, to let them
know what you think of the change, if for no better reason than catharsis.
From a selfish point of view, of course, I think your best move is to keep
on using CBMART, and add your experience with GEOS to the pool of GEOS talent
we've got here <grin>.
#: 17598 S13/The GEOS Connection
04-Jan-89 11:58:51
Sb: #17588-Copy Protection
Fm: Marte Brengle 76703,4242
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
I think the "low price product gets cheap customer support" line is just hooey
of the highest degree. And they have a lot of nerve posting it on QLink, where
one only has to push a few fkeys to get over to where Timeworks, which puts out
a line of excellent and reasonably-priced software, is doing a bang-up job of
customer support. And Timeworks isn't using Q as their "official" outlet,
either.
I get the feeling that BSW is just locked into a "It's everyone else's fault"
philosophy, and it's going to do them in before long.
--M--
#: 17603 S13/The GEOS Connection
04-Jan-89 18:01:28
Sb: #17588-#Copy Protection
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032 (X)
Ed,from time to time I will be around this board.I am a long time Compuserve
user,but have little time to use these boards. I used Q-Link awhile and quickly
got fed up with both user and service nonsense.I will give them a little
credit,they still exist;I really looked for that network to fold after about
two years,I still feel it will happen before long.I also feel BSW will
eventually be in trouble also,but on the other hand look at Commodore itself;it
has one of the worse customer service records in the industry,and is still
going strong. ject of what I can do for this board,at this time not a
lot,mainly due to the fact I have spent only a small amount of time with the
software.On copyprotection I would recommend anybody to stick with Software
Support International. SSI offers both very good software AND
SUPPORT!Geo-busters takes good care of any Geos product,but I have found that
after using it your back -up is more prone to crash,if you forget to properly
close your disk ,than your orginal.
#: 17607 S13/The GEOS Connection
04-Jan-89 19:02:31
Sb: #17603-Copy Protection
Fm: Ed Flinn/Sysop 76703,4032
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143
Steve,
Well, it was mainly intended to be humorous, but I do think we can do a good
job handling the day-to-day GEOS questions, as well as more technical stuff.
When it comes to replacing trashed disks and such, tho, the vendor is obviously
required, and I share some of your uneasiness about the future of BSW.
#: 17594 S13/The GEOS Connection
04-Jan-89 00:25:15
Sb: #17553-Copy Protection
Fm: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
To: Marte Brengle 76703,4242 (X)
Hi Marte:
Apple GEOS has "folders" (sub-directories). Bet the 1581 users wish they had
those in C= GEOS.
Malcolm
#: 17626 S13/The GEOS Connection
05-Jan-89 14:14:15
Sb: #17542-#Copy Protection
Fm: Anthony Marsh 72127,2301
To: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
I saw that GEOS for Apple, but I thought it was dongle protected. Some C= also
comes dongle protected, but most software publishers like copy protection. BSW
was very up front about saying that they want it. However, I've never seen them
be up front about their Trojan Horse. I've heard that one company had a
protection scheme designed to ruin your drive if you tried to copy the master
disk! Tony
#: 17633 S13/The GEOS Connection
05-Jan-89 21:51:25
Sb: #17626-Copy Protection
Fm: Marte Brengle 76703,4242
To: Anthony Marsh 72127,2301 (X)
The word from BSW is that the newest versions of Apple GEOS, *and* Apple
geoPublish (!!!!!!) are not copy protected. In fact, Apple geoPublish is a
stand-alone program!
Why do I get the impression that they've been using us as guinea pigs?
--M--
#: 17640 S13/The GEOS Connection
06-Jan-89 18:19:52
Sb: #17542-#Copy Protection
Fm: Tweeze 72401,1677
To: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
Yes I have some comments!!! First, I think that GEOS is the most priceworthy
program I have ever paid for. But it would be nice to customize my boot disks
to decrease the ammount of disk swapping required. Most users of GEOS probably
pay a few bucks for the lattest parameter copier to back up there boot disks
anyway. Maybe Berkeley could sell a copier and parameter set for GEOS? It could
be keyed to your ID number but able to backup your own boot.
#: 17643 S13/The GEOS Connection
06-Jan-89 20:19:43
Sb: #17640-Copy Protection
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Tweeze 72401,1677
As for making backups of your Geos software,I would purchase Renegade from
software support international. They also sell(or at least did) Geobuster as
stand alone software. They generally advertise in Ahoy, Info,and Computes
Gazette.If you have problems they at least offer technical support-SOMETHING
BSW DOES NOT SEEM TO GIVE A CARE ABOUT. The only problem I have found with
parameters for Geos,is that it "appears" to become extra important to properly
close a disk after use. I consider that a minor matter,I keep 2 backups on hand
at all times.
#: 17653 S13/The GEOS Connection
07-Jan-89 17:46:55
Sb: #17643-Copy Protection
Fm: Tweeze 72401,1677
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143
Maybe I'll try them. So far I've done okay on my own but with every new release
it becomes increaseingly difficult.
#: 17671 S13/The GEOS Connection
08-Jan-89 19:51:05
Sb: #17653-Copy Protection
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Tweeze 72401,1677
I used cannon 128 to fast copy my Geos program,and Geobuster to apply the
appropiate parameter. The program should let you know if the application of the
parameter is not sucessful.As I noted it does seem to make the backup disk
touchy ,you must remeber to close the disk each time.I forgot a couple of times
and each time the disk crashed,but I just recopied and went from there. The
point of this is I have forgot to close the main Geos disk before with no
problem,I don't know if I just got lucky or there is something to what
happened.Your Geos manual does warn you to properly close your disk.
#: 17706 S13/The GEOS Connection
11-Jan-89 06:39:07
Sb: #17626-Copy Protection
Fm: Transactor HQ 76703,4243
To: Anthony Marsh 72127,2301
Hi Tony:
The OS may be protected (I prefer dongles actually). But it was geoPublish for
the Apple that is not. Though I don't know if it's keyed to serial #'s.
Maybe I should visit an Apple Forum and ask some questions...
Malcolm
#: 17733 S13/The GEOS Connection
12-Jan-89 17:07:50
Sb: #17671-#Copy Protection
Fm: Tweeze 72401,1677
To: Steve Hinds 74335,143 (X)
Thanks but I use a C64. I mainly like to keep track of where my ID number is
in my applications. I wonder if anyone has created a 1581 boot disk yet?
#: 17745 S13/The GEOS Connection
13-Jan-89 18:28:47
Sb: #17733-Copy Protection
Fm: Steve Hinds 74335,143
To: Tweeze 72401,1677 (X)
I do not know the answer to your question,but Free Spirit or Software Support
International are your best bets.